Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 17, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

In my experiences as a Ranger, I have found that the best rangers raised and trained, are from Tyria. However, I would like to change that sentiment by positive action. I want to, for the first time, change my own opinion on what I see as my honest outlook on a situation.

These rangers, that I refer to at the outset of my thread, are what you usually want in your team. The majority of these rangers can play multiple builds, are aware of the monsters in the different enviornments, and are willing to adapt for the betterment of the team.

Of course,their are always exceptions to this, as we all know too well. However, I have still found that the best rangers started playing in Tyria. Those who begin in Cantha may not find it as neccessary to enlist ranger versatility due to the limited need to change builds or use anything special to achieve goals or succeed in various missions. I would like to see this way of thinking changed. Versatility is our strongest asset.

Once you get Barrage in Cantha, you are pretty much set throughout the entire chapter, except if you are a PvP player, which will force build exposure upon the ranger, and thus make him/her a more compotent player overall. I think all rangers should make the attempt to adapt, and apply their skills to achieve similar goals by different means. Once again, versatility is our strongest asset.

In Elona, the ranger takes a more damage oriented approach to combat, with skills like Forked Arrow,Keen Arrow, and Burning Arrow{E}, the ranger begins to excell at Single Target Damage unlike in the previous 2 chapters, where rangers were either trappers or B/P or interupters. This swing into the single damage realm makes for interesting combat scenarios that truely put a warrior in danger of death by a ranger's arrow. No poison, just pure damage.

These rangers are capable of being skillful, but will lack the viewpoint of an area like maguuma jungles,where things pop out of concealment and approach quickly. Elona is full of wide open spaces, while Tyria has a tree, or a rock to hide behind at every turn. Using your enviornment to your advantage, a ranger becomes more dangerous. We just weren't made for open combat until Elona, where you can upgrade your armor enough to actually fight a warrior and have a chance. Yet, I still believe that rangers are better used in indirect manners. Leave direct combat to the warrior/dervish, while we do what we do best...survive when they all fall from pure finesse.

My next point of training is the use of Expertise to use skills from other lines to the ranger's benefit. To exploit weapons of other classes can be an enjoyable diversion for rangers while playing lone quests. I, myself have recently made a Shadow Prison Ranger build that has effectively put down a number of Canthan and Elonan Bosses in conjunction with a Shadow prison Axeman and a Dark Prison Dervish using the Avatar of Balthazar. I will display my Shadow Ranger dagger build here;

[skill=card]Tiger's Fury[/skill][skill=card]Unsuspecting Strike[/skill][skill=card]Wild Strike[/skill][skill=card]Horns of The Ox[/skill][skill=card]Shadow Prison[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Though I need a better lead attack, the others do well with the overall team build. I use an Expertise Sup rune and mask. The stats look like this;

Dagger Mastery 12, Expertise 12, Beast Mastery 8, and the rest to Deadly Arts, though the hex does what I need it to do without extending the duration.

This is for fun. When I play with people, I stick to my Bows and adjust as needed. I've trapped everywhere that a ranger can trap, and a few places that I shouldn't. I've played a variety of builds, from Poison Arrow, to B/P, to Degen Ranger. Expansion of knowledge makes a ranger all the more useful to his/her teammates. Thus, use Expertise to play with other classes skills, but realize that everything doesn't work with a ranger in practical use.

Third, and maybe the most important for any ranger in training, make sure to get as many skills as you can, if not all of them. Tyrian Rangers with access to all 3 chapters have a definite advantage to a Canthan or Elonan Ranger with access to just 1 chapter. This can be said about almost every profession, but a ranger can be made or broken by skills more than the rest, imho. A ranger that lacks skills can't be played like a warrior,or an ele. Nuke the mob, run out in front and plug the torrent of enemies, but what do you tell a ranger who can't do what he needs to do? The ranger is a finesse type character, that takes more skill than one may think, and thus needs to be as versatile and well equipped as possible.

You can't call yourself a real interupter with only Distracting Shot and Choking Gas.

You aren't a trapper with just Dust and Flame traps. Sure, we can all call out that we are B/P rangers, but if you don't have Barrage, you aren't a B/P ranger, now are you? Sure, you might get away by using dual shot, but how long do you think you'll get away with that?

The point is to train your ranger to be the best he/she can be. Learn as much as you can, and play with the skills available to you to see what you can/can't do.

What I am looking for from this thread is to advance the knowledge and skill levels of the common ranger by using the more skilled among us to expose the others to more advanced skills and builds. Take a build you use, talk about its strengths and weaknesses, and educate the masses. Class is in session.

Edit: I have edited the OP to better explain my opinions and my motivation for this post. For any who have been offended or felt that I was being of an elitist mind, I do apologize. That was never my intention.

random.name · Dec 17, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Dont know how you can say the best rangers come from Tyria... I assume that your ranger is from Tyria, and somehow feel more superior? Did you know that you can actually move your NF or Factions Ranger over to Tyria to get the skills needed?

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 17, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Do you pay attention? Have you read the OP?

I said that rangers that start in Tyria appear to display more skill. I also said that their are exceptions to that statement. Furthermore, this is not about elitism, but about exposure to eviornments and situations.

Do you have a Tyrian ranger? Did you start in Tyria? Or maybe you're taking the statement wrong because you are an NF or Factions ranger?

Or maybe you just read the first line, got angry, and posted this nonsense?

For all others who enter this thread, please read the whole OP before making a comment,ignorant or otherwise. I greatly appreciate input that is USEFUL!

stueyman2099 · Dec 17, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

funny thing about that, where the character is created has nothing to do with the skill of the player behind the keyboard. who'd have thought?

Quote:

I greatly appreciate input that is USEFUL!

This post has nothing that isn't

A: already posted.
OR
B: completely unimportant.

As for your build. Less HoTO, more Twisting Fangs.

random.name · Dec 17, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Lets look at your comments that you made:

1.

"These rangers are what you usually want in your team. The majority of these rangers can play multiple builds, are aware of the monsters in the different enviornments, and are willing to adapt for the betterment of the team."

Basically what I am reading is that because prophecies is so old, everyone knows everything about the missions. So they can change builds to suit it. Heres a bit of news for you, you can do the same in the other campaigns. On the point of prophecy rangers being more willing to adapt their roles for the betterment of the team... You do realise that depends on the type of person playing and NOT the place where the char was created?

2.

"Of course,their are always exceptions to this, as we all know too well. However, I have still found that the best rangers start playing in Tyria. Those who begin in Cantha are not very skilled in the ranger's versatility due to the limited need to change builds or use anything special to achieve goals or succeed in various missions."

What do you mean limited need to change build or use anything special? Most players except newbies change their builds before every single mission/area to be the most effective.

3.

"Once you get Barrage in Cantha, you are pretty much set throughout the entire chapter, except if you are a PvP player, which will force build exposure upon the ranger, and thus make him/her a more compotent player overall."

You get barrage in Elona and Cantha as well. Some rangers just cap barrage and stay with it. I have seen people in Tyria playing barrage until endgame as well. In fact, it was in Factions that alot of rangers started to play more interrupt. Before then it was ok to just barrage your way untill you finished the game.

4.

"In Elona, the ranger takes a more damage oriented approach to combat, with skills like Forked Arrow,Keen Arrow, and Burning Arrow{E}, the ranger begins to excell at Single Target Damage unlike in the previous 2 chapters, where rangers were either trappers or B/P or interupters. This swing into the single damage realm makes for interesting combat scenarios that truely put a warrior in danger of death by a ranger's arrow. No poison, just pure damage."

Instead of endlessly duplicating skills (like Anet did with the introduction of Factions) with every new chapter that they release, they instead decided to create all new skills. That meant that they did not add old skills with new names. Its simple to get around that. Take your ranger to cantha or tyria to get them.

5.
"These rangers are capable of being skillful, but will lack the viewpoint of an area like maguuma jungles,where things pop out of concealment and approach quickly. Elona is full of wide open spaces, while Tyria has a tree, or a rock to hide behind at every turn. Using your enviornment to your advantage, a ranger becomes more dangerous. We just weren't made for open combat until Elona, where you can upgrade your armor enough to actually fight a warrior and have a chance."

Very romantic viewpoint there. The fact is that most people who plays NF also played the previous chapters. True, there isnt alot of trees in NF, but there sure is walls, cliffs etc. If you want to hide, you can still do that. I usually used stances to keep myself alive instead of walls. You should also know that NF also have to sudden appearances of enemies.

As to the rest of your thread, I have no problem with it. I just dont think that you should say that most of other rangers has less skill than someone who started in Tyria.

P.S.
In response to your question about myself and rangers... I have a Tyria and Factions Ranger that has completed the first two chapters. I have a new NF Ranger that has completed NF, and I plan on taking her to the other two as well. I did however take her to both chapters to buy skills.

I have no inention of flaming your thread, but I just dont understand the need of alot of people to criticize anything that is non-prophecies.

drupal · Dec 17, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

I'll just reply to your question, everything else is already said. Skill has really nothing to do with the starting campaign - it's just that you've got more experience if you play 2 years longer than other players

The B/P Ranger R/Mo
[skill=card]Barrage[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Throw Dirt[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill=card]Charm Animal[/skill][skill=card]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill=card]Rebirth[/skill]

At first it's really important to point out that it's more a team build than something to solo with. It's used in the tombs and in FoW.
The builds strength is that is does much spiking damage and has a strong selfhealing (both through Order of the Vampire) to mobs, not just a single enemy + it can defend itself a few seconds.

Its weakness is that you're very addicted to the Order and to the monk. There's no ability to tank or something for a long period of time.
If the teams plays well together you'll get a long in every PvE area with a few mobs around.

I'll try to post a few more later.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 17, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Random, you obviously have run into some ranger hate in your time of playing, since you are taking it very personally. Drupal has said partially what makes a good ranger, though he isn't going to jump into this muck,and I don't blame him.

Experience makes for a great teacher, and if you haven't played 25 missions in Tyria, how does a 13 mission experience with wave after wave of mob violence even contend with it? The difference in terrain in Elona does make a difference, although you may feel it is just me romanticisizing it. It makes a difference in how you approach each area and mission. Getting caught in wide open places by catapults never happened to me outside of GvG before. Has it happened to you? Have mobs chased you all over a map before? That's new to me,too.

In Tyria, you play with a multitude of builds before you get to barrage and get caught up in that cult like following. Most guys either use poison, burning/ignite, or become trappers. This, once again, imho, makes for a better ranger. Skills are just a part of the overall synopsis of ranger training. Experiences make for definite changes in ranger development. Name a place comparable to THK before they made it easier? A place where a ranger was needed to be versatile and able to follow orders, or take the lead when the group needs a leader.

I just feel that a ranger who starts in Tyria just has a better foundation. Now, let's move on.

[skill=card]Needling Shot[/skill][skill=card]Forked Arrow[/skill][skill=card]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill=card]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

This is my Explosive Damage build. Burning degen, major fire damage, and multiple hits to maximize damage output. Single target damage to the max.

LicensedLuny · Dec 17, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I like the idea of an "Interesting new tricks to try with your Ranger" sharing thread. Good idea, Darkpower!

But Darkpower, may I suggest you edit the first post to remove some of the generalizations that seem to offend so many people here? Wouldn't this be a more productive thread to help train all us rangers if you simply said something like, "IMO, there are too many people playing rangers that haven't considered possibilities other than a few basic, rather cookie-cutter ranger builds," left it at that and got on with the constructive suggestions?

For the potential usefulness and interest of this thread, it's earned a place on my subscribed list. I'd hate to see this go to bickering over generalizations or "<insert campaign> rangers rule!"

As for interesting new tricks to play with rangers, I'm all for hearing about it! The latest trick I'm toying with is the idea of a R/D build for ranged blinding using an ebon bow string and the elite, Ebon Dust Aura. It's far from tweaked, but I like anything I could stand back with and disable all the non-casters harassing my team.

Alas, I'm not very good at build tweaking, so I'll be very grateful if someone figures out the exact stats to optimize that one ... or points out why it won't work. (I can say for sure it's not the best general-purpose ranger build, nor is it something that works well with henchies or heroes. The very idea requires the ranger be switching targets among all the non-casters ... hopefully while the rest of the team focuses on the priority targets.)

*crossing fingers for this thread*

Cheers,
Luny

EDIT - Oh, and one more suggestion - you should leave us a link to where we can all go and learn to make such cool little skill bar images to insert here! The only way I know to do that is gwBBcode, which doesn't work here.

Livingston · Dec 17, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

This, once again, imho, makes for a better ranger.

Dude, there's nothing humble about your opinions. You come off completely as an elitist. It doesn't matter if what you say is true or not as it can't be proved. The best one could do is try to take a statistical sample, but everyone knows those are bullcrap anyway.

I'm not really sure what you were trying to accomplish by saying what you said, but if there was something in your head that told you your words might get more Rangers to start in Tyria, or make people better players, then you should quit listening to that voice as it's not steering you very well.

At best people who have started their Rangers in the later chapters are going to be pissed off at you, even with you saying there are exceptions (that doesn't negate the insult of the words), people who have started their Rangers in Tyria will either smile and think "hell yah we #1," or also get pissed off because they don't agree with you. There may be a few people who read this who happen to not have any Rangers yet and who are going to create one, but out of those people you are going to have those who will create their characters in the later chapters just to try and prove you wrong, or they will reject your ideas completely based on how you expressed your "humble" opinion and how others have reacted to it. There may be a couple left who actually take the advice and use it, but by and far I can nearly guarantee that your words will do a lot more to alienate other Rangers rather than convince them to see your way of thinking.

LOL. Sorry mate, I know it seems like I might just be taking pock shots at you but I'm not, I swear. I just can't stand it when someone uses that abbreviation (imho) when it's so obviously not humble. Had you used IMO, or hadn't bolded the word, I wouldn't have even responded.

Livingston

LicensedLuny · Dec 17, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Hey Liv ... I always get over that by figuring they must mean h for honest.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Livingston · Dec 18, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Hey Liv ... I always get over that by figuring they must mean h for honest.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

LOL, yeah except everyone knows that people who need to use honest in a sentence are usually covering for something...

XvArchonvX · Dec 18, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Ummm...so this is a long drawn out post just to say that people that have use rangers that have been through 3 campaigns are generally more experienced and better prepared than rangers from later campaigns? I hate to be rude, but....duh!

What is the point of bringing attention to this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I just feel that a ranger who starts in Tyria just has a better foundation. Now, let's move on.

to what? You spent the whole OP making this point, so I don't know what you would move on to. If you want to advertise more builds then why not make a new thread to do so?

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 22, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Ok, Archon and I hardly ever see things on the same page, so I expected those type of words from him.

However, if you feel I am being too harsh or carrying out an elitist type of idea, then I apologize for mispronouncing my agenda.

I intended for those of "Lengthy" and/or "Valued" experience to step in to stop the wave of young rangers dropping down the Barrage/BHA rabbit hole, not to start a riot.

People like Archon, who I believe has much experience as a ranger, even though our methods are different, achieve goals nonetheless effectively.

That being the case, I intended to begin a thread where we, as a community of rangers, could talk more of what we find effective, but not what would be considered as mainstream ranger practices.

Everyone doesn't just use their bow. I find that as I played longer, my bow became my only weapon, and I began to never use other skills from my secondaries, except stances,healing skills, or the resurrection spells. I now think that this is not a good way to play. We have a secondary profession for a reason, yet I believe that most hardly play with them when using a ranger. I participated in a thread by a ranger who wanted to use a sword, and found that it just wasn't as useful in his way of playing as it would be to use a hammer(It was a Thumper type build). Yet, his thread made me conceive the Shadow Prison build for my own Ranger to use.

I thank you, young ranger, for rekindling my inspiration. Your desire to use the sword showed me that just because I didn't agree with your way of using a secondary didn't mean that it could never be done effectively and competitively.

As for my OP, pre edit, I still feel that rangers that start in Tyria seem to play better when I meet them, but we, as a community, can hopefully change that. Experience is the greatest teacher, but experienced teachers can definitly take a young ranger farther?

Solus_the_Deadly · Dec 22, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I found my ranger alot easier to train from Elona than from Tyria, Due to the fact ranger skills (such as barrange) are found alot easier and earlier than in Tyria. No offence Darkpower but what HONESTLY makes you think Tyria rangers are better players, because Tyria mobs are senseless A.I?

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 22, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus_the_Deadly

I found my ranger alot easier to train from Elona than from Tyria, Due to the fact ranger skills (such as barrange) are found alot easier and earlier than in Tyria. No offence Darkpower but what HONESTLY makes you think Tyria rangers are better players, because Tyria mobs are senseless A.I?

Solus, I believe that Tyrian rangers seem to play better because of my experiences, not because it's a fact. That is my current opinion. Easier skill aquirement doesn't make you better, it just gets you a skill faster.

Can you use it effectively, is the question you should ask yourself, and any others who feel as you do. If you feel you are doing just fine, then congrates on your successes, and I hope it continues. If you feel you can still get better from what I may have to say, then continue reading.

Having Barrage by Borleas Seabed was a boon to new rangers in Cantha, and would definitely be an advantage to success in Cantha, on the whole. However, the gaining of this one skill changed the face of ranger play, imo, for the course of the time between any first time rangers doing that mission and the release of NF. Everyone that was a "New Ranger" became exclusively a "Lvl 20 B/P Ranger LFG". This is all well and good for places with huge mobs, or in Tombs...but in HA/TA...or even in AB?

I don't believe that this happened with most rangers that were originally training/made up in Tyria, where Poison Arrow/Kindle Arrow reigned supreme. My point is that a strong skill didn't imbalance the gameplay, but it did,imo,imbalance the way of thinking for new rangers, in general, and thus threw the community out of sorts. Out of sorts so much that it became excepted, to some degree, to be OK to bring Barrage to places were it was nearly useless, or at best, not as useful.

I don't want Barrage/Pet Rangers to be lumped together with every R/* like Mending Wammos and W/Mos that actually play well. Newer players see W/Mo, and assume you use Mending, and don't want that Warrior in the group, when he/she may have never used mending ever. W/Es were never popular until Shock Axeman got popular in GvG/HA, but they are prefered over the greatest warrior survivor build to be made.

My point is that the stereotypical B/P ranger is starting to become every ranger. I want to stop that now, before it is too late. I want every ranger to be versatile. I want it where everyone wants a ranger or 2 in their party because their skills are not just needed, but wanted and covetted.

I want people to put their builds and ideas for hybrid builds in this thread and explain their findings on its usefulness, or lack their of, in the attempt to achieve this goal. Experimentation is just the 1st step.

daky · Dec 22, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus_the_Deadly

I found my ranger alot easier to train from Elona than from Tyria, Due to the fact ranger skills (such as barrange) are found alot easier and earlier than in Tyria.

Let me point out one thing. Barrage = mindless training for a ranger. Yes it is a good skill, if the area/time are correct. But honestly, those of you who use barrage in every mission, every explorable area, have only proven that you can spam one skill. Spamming one skill does not make for a "good" ranger.

Silk Weaver · Dec 22, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

It's always easiest to start from Cantha/Elona than in Tyria. 15 Attribute Quests? Lawl. LA is farther from the beggining than both Elona and Cantha.

Barrage is silly, I hate it. It's good mathematically, but.. bleh.

Tyrians are always better though. 19 months old!

Zeph- · Dec 22, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I got an question. Whats the actual use of this thread? It aint helping young rangers who started off in Cantha or Elona. It contains a few builds wich don't get explained so thats definatly not it. Is you're only goal to make people say:
Your an Canthan ranger, sorry I will look for an Tyrian. If so then you're really being a great help to all these rangers u feel are so inferior to you.
I love playing ranger in fact its the only class I play Pve wise ( exept for some farming ). But she is only 6 months old ( I only play the game for 8 months)
And quess what she has been created in Cantha. Ow no I am such an noob, people please don't take me into your party's anymore. You wouldn't want a ranger from Cantha. Come on I know I have been a noob once. I had an ranger from tyria when i just started the game. And after running out of energy very fast with all this flare spamming I found out I wasn't so good. But people learn it very soon. When i created my ranger, after playing the game for 2 months, I knew exactly what to do. Ok it was in Cantha maybe not the hardest campaign. But I am 3 missions away from completing prophesies.( didn't do all in the Jungle (yet)) But believe me after playing all Cantha I didn't find Prophesies that challenging. It is more versatile but as you stated u never got hit by an catapult outside of GvG. WOW ur an Pro. Most people dont even get hit in GvG just to let you know. I have to agree with you that Canthan ONLY ranger aren't so good. Since u lack quite a bit of skills though they can still easily beat the campaign with Barrage (no I don't like this skill, but thats my opinion I think its strong.) But people who just started might not be strongest they will still learn it like we all had to 1 day.

Zeph

Solus_the_Deadly · Dec 22, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

So your saying rangers are Better from Tyria.... because they just are? With no factual evdiences? Its not skills or requirements? They just are?

O ofcourse its "from your experiances".

Shadis · Dec 22, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

And how do you filter the people who have extensive Ranger experience, but chose to create a Canthan or Elonian Ranger simply due to liking the appearance options more than Prophecies?

The thing is, you can't. You can't know how "good" anyone is at a class until you play with them. Starting chapter means very little.